Harris played the victim card in his answer to why atheists haven’t formed good rituals and tenants. “Because we get accused of heresy and executed”. OMGosh. Tell that to the Christian martyrs. Boo hoo. Or Patrick Henry. Snowflake.
His next talking point is shared by the likes of Neil deGrasse Tyson. Religion is outdated because we now know that epilepsy is a problem with the brain, not evil spirits. Firstly the spirit world can effect the physical world’s mechanisms. Treating only the physical neglects the spiritual. Illnesses have lots of variables which also include environmental, cultural, familial, and personal, so one should take a wholistic approach. His worldview is so simplistic, narrow and small.
I have thirty minutes until I can eat my Paleo-ish One Meal A Day (I’ll let you look them up. -12lbs in 3 weeks so far. Non Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease diagnosis and symptoms are great motivators). Now I have twenty six more minutes. I hope I can remember the two main points I wanted to address while listening to the 4th installment of Jordan Peterson vs. Sam Harris.
Let me start by saying a couple of people have said after the first installment, that Harris slew Peterson. At the time they said that I’d listened up to 2.5 or maybe 3. I said the first conversation was a wash in feeling each other out. I granted that Harris was a bit smoother of a talker, and that Peterson takes more time to think things through, and that Harris tended to dismissively generalize, and Peterson saw more complexity. I thought Peterson dealt a death blow with his “try sitting on your bed and asking for inspiration and see what happens.” Harris: “we don’t know where inspiration comes from.” Peterson: exactly, so you can’t say it’s not God.”
In this 4th, Peterson famously hedges on if he believes God wrote the Bible, and got angry when Harris tried to corner him. Here’s what I gather. Peterson believes in evolution. He also believes that man is made in the image of God, and that the Logos/icon of Christ is the ideal of humanity that is far above what people start out as. Therefore he believes in the possibility of Incarnation of this ideal whether it actually occurred or not. He also believes the Bible is extraordinary and in this discussion, that it is both inspired and the culmination of evolutionary knowledge, passed down for millennia. Elsewhere he does not attempt to explain the metaphysical.
The conversation got especially interesting the two times they discussed love. Harris had a pretty good mechanism for defining love from the point of view of the experiencer. I wish Peterson had challenged him on if the beloved was worthy. Is it true love if the object is a secret serial killer? If a person’s knowledge is limited, what can save him but inspiration? There are so many stories of people mysteriously deciding not to go a certain route, or get on a doomed plane, etc and finding out later they would have died. That is inspiration. Harris would dismiss all this.
Back to Harris’ self evaluation of if he is being loving, I think Peterson may have been impressed with his evaluation of selfishness, but it was toward the end and Peterson was tired. I wish he would eat some vegetables. Anyway, what if Harris, with his interest in Buddhist writings, doesn’t need to believe in God to become pretty good at loving worthy people? Oh yeah, the Bible says the test is loving your enemies. He’s pretty dismissive of them. However he had a glimmer of strongmanning the person who becomes Muslim because they see western materialism to be vacuous. Ah, was that gnostic Buddhism? Perhaps Peterson needs to address the body.
I don’t blame Peterson with his psychological scientism for being apophatic, almost agnostic about God, but being pretty up on the Logos. I say go there through analysis and deep thought as a refreshing avenue. I’ve long longed to hear an Orthodox friendly view of modern psychology.
Seven more minutes. There was one more thing…. they agreed on truth… wish Peterson had said more about love… three minutes… was about the end of identifying what they hate? Peterson – the evil that makes me like to see others suffer, Harris – meaninglessness existence in the present, oddly enough.
Maybe I’ll think about belief in the afterlife next time. And, what if Harris can love his enemies without believing in God? I’d say that’s because he’s created in God’s image whether he knows it or not? And if he practices it good enough can he be saved? Do people who believe the right things about God but are bad practitioners of love enter into the kingdom? hmmmm
This may not happen because it may embarrass my family, but the idea of wearing fuzzy Santa Claus pajamas, positioned like a fetus, and put in a burlap bag and tied with a red bow, really appeals to me. I never fit in with a group, such as the tree pod movement, because cheap, fuzzy pajamas are probably not good tree food, so too bad for them. I also want to be buried the very next day, so just put me in a cold room and don’t bother with anything else. I don’t care if no one but my immediate family and priest attend. I do want others to pray for me, though.
I keep getting ideas for blog posts, but they don’t last long because they are too far over the line. In yesterday’s video Jordan Peterson explained the difficulty of pinning a political position on him in that he is pro tradition but also very creative. I think I am too. This probably means that one values tradition but thinks it can be expressed in modern ways. Maybe even secular ways. What was it he said is the danger of traditionalism? Calcification and tyranny? Yes. And people quit thinking for themselves. I’m very averse to surrendering my mind. Orthodox can say one should discard their thoughts and dwell silently in their hearts, but this idea gives me a very trapped, anxious feeling. My mind is what keeps me out of trouble. When it’s not being neurotic. I feel less neurotic if I’m thinking analytically and scientifically. This is why I love St. Maximus. He points us to the cosmos, not just our messed up selves. Seems to me his detachment is to not think about oneself so much, but to contemplate cosmic mysteries.
Cosmic mysteries are universally true. But JP is an individualist. I’d say he promotes individual responsibility in learning universal truths.
Please excuse the disturbing parts of this clip from Immortal Beloved.
Natural burial is becoming more popular in today’s environmental and health movements. Traditional Religions, including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam also wish to treat the departed’s body with gentleness and without extreme intervention. This said, some circumstances may weigh the decision-making in the direction of more aggressive preservation measures.
This letter is an effort to decrease the fear of lay-people providing respectful care of the departed’s body immediately around their death, no matter what decisions will be made later. In today’s mindset of institutional delegation, the funeral industry has been resorted to to handle every aspect of death care. Once a person dies, care ceases, even oftentimes by hospital staff, and people leave the room till the funeral home comes to take the body away. This should not be. The departed should still be regarded as related to their bodies, and that they are at their most vulnerable in not being in control of their bodies.
There is a small window of just a few hours where a person can be easily positioned in a peaceful, restful presentation. Sometimes this window may be a few hours before their last breath. It is a mercy to them that when they are no longer in control of their mouth, eyes, and limbs, that they are assisted to a posture of restful sleep: eyes and mouth closed, legs straight, and arms crossed over their chest. Bindings are often needed after they pass until they are fixed in that position. Modern methods of positioning used in embalming include breaking and wiring the jaw, and chemically loosening soft tissue. I do not wish to vilify or condemn this practice, but if this can be done by those close to the departing person, I believe the person and any who view the person will be very grateful, even the funeral home staff.
There are of course many options for how to care for a person after they are positioned. Even if they are not positioned in time, or are unfortunately disfigured, a closed casket is not disrespectful. A picture of them while alive can be put on their casket for veneration. If the person will be buried the next day, no other care is required beyond a bath, and changing their clothes.
For a funeral twos days later, dry ice and a turned down thermostat can be used.
Beyond two days, a funeral home can provide refrigeration and a decision about an open or closed casket, or a drape over the face can be made.
Please do not be afraid to handle a person who has just died. It is a blessing to serve them in their most vulnerable hour.
The book, A Christian Ending, by Deacon Mark Barna details more in depth care measures for those desiring to provide it.
is discussed sometime after 30 minutes. I’m glad that they talk about how communism sounds better even though the death tolls were at least similar.
Before that they talked about racial IQ differences and how difficult it is to talk about it. They didn’t talk enough about causes, imo. I would say cultural and familial values are an ingredient, and agree that a high iq is not necessarily an indicator of virtuousness. Peterson defends what is under the most attack, which at present is the vilification of white people for valuing the type of intelligence represented by IQ tests.
